Suggestion: pages for each HS, not just each state

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anir dendroica
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Suggestion: pages for each HS, not just each state

Post by anir dendroica »

I am currently unemployed and stuck in cold Minnesota with too much time on my hands, wishing I were closer to some hot springs. But the best I can do now is surfing the web. As a result, I have, over the past week or so, seen most of what the web has to offer in terms of hot springs resources. This site is by far the most active, the most friendly, and the most comprehensive site I found. However, if soakersforum is to become the "Wikipedia of hot springs" (which would be great since Wikipedia doesn't have much about most springs), some significant changes would be helpful.

1. Add one more layer of directory structure so that each hot spring has its own page. This will prevent the state pages from becoming extremely long and also prevent good information about lesser-known springs from being tucked away on page 7.

2. Within this new structure, create an always-on-top "sticky" thread for each spring, and restrict the ability to post into this thread to a few local members familiar with the spring who are willing to provide a general overview and to update this as conditions change.

3. To be of use, this general overview should include:
--Spring temperature, pool size and depth, and any seasonal changes in these.
--An estimate of overall popularity and best times to visit if solitude is desired, as well as seasonal road closures and other pertinent access information.
--Written directions (maps are OK but can be misleading and take a long time to download on slow connections). If the local HS stewards entrusted with maintaining the thread feel that a spring is being overused or disrespected, they may choose to withhold directions or provide a contact e-mail to obtain directions.
--Clothing-optional status (always, depends-on-the-crowd, or never)
--Any other information frequent users wish to include: history, local color, spring traditions, opportunities for visitors to participate in/donate to upkeep, etc.

With this structure, a person encountering soakersforum through Google (as I did in early February) could browse directly to their hot spring of interest, where they would find a general information thread on top followed by other visitors' threads containing trip reports, pictures, personal reflections, etc. I for one feel that this restructuring would, over time, enable this site to become the one comprehensive source for US hot springs information. And I would be willing to provide the initial overview thread for Granite Hot Springs in Wyoming, though I suspect that there are a few Wyoming lurkers on here who may be more qualified for the task.

~Mark Luterra aka anir dendroica
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Jeff Allen
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Post by Jeff Allen »

Just digesting the ideas.

So if I'm not from the area I can't post about a spring that I visited?

I like the personal information that gets posted with the reports. It makes it more personal and human.

When soaking I get all the data on the spring, as your list suggests. It's just that after losing the orginal posts on croak.net I have to reconstruck them here. All I have left in my head are the personal and human sides of the soak. The data part of the soaks are in my daily writings, but that would take a lot of work to find.

Usually when someone is interested they will ask for directions. I find that part fun. If I wants just the stats I would go to the states listing page and get just the stats, the whole stats and nothing but the stats.

Thanks for the input and I'm thinking about it, not that I have the final say or anything. Just digesting...
...Soaking in the steam in 2015...
carolinaspringer
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Post by carolinaspringer »

anir dendroica--now that's a screen name I'd love to have explained on the "Free for All" thread for that purpose!

Anyhow, it's great that you've taken so much time and thought. Are you looking for a job? What are you looking for? We don't have any hot springs nearby, but it is nice and warm here most of the year.

Anyhow, your suggestions are great, but there are reliable hot spring guidebooks that are regularly updated (and that most of us buy as soon as the new edition comes out); they provide all, or almost all, of the info you've listed. I think it's a lot more useful to get the personal "skinny" (so to speak) and condition updates, resulting from recent visits by Forum members rather than repeating here the basic facts that other sources already have.
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anir dendroica
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Clarifications

Post by anir dendroica »

In response to Jeff:

The personal information is great, but each visitor also gathers tidbits of time-sensitive impersonal information (e.g. spring is too cold, access is blocked by snow, creek crossing is dangerous, etc.) that becomes buried over time beneath personal stories and information about other springs.

What I am suggesting is an always-on-top "sticky" thread for each hot spring (my idea of a page for each spring would help this but is not necessary) in which visitors could post quick data from their last visit (temperature, access, crowds, CO or not, and so on). A good model for this is the "news" page on the Friends of Cougar website http://www.friendsofcougar.com/news.htm The only reason to restrict access to "locals" or "stewards" would be to prevent these threads from filling up with personal stories, but if their purpose were made clear this shouldn't be a problem. It would also be great for these (and all) threads if the most recent posts appeared on top, but I suspect that that is a more intractable issue with the forum server.

In response to carolinaspringer:

I realize that general information is available in guidebooks, and that this forum probably includes a few of the guidebook authors who would rather sell books than make that information available for free over the internet. It's just that my generation grew up with Wikipedia and Google, and we expect the information we want to be available on the web. I really don't want to open that can of worms here, but I do encourage those of you who have a favorite spring to post your version of a guide to it on here, ideally in an always-on-top "sticky" information thread so that it won't get buried over time. If I am accepted to graduate school at Oregon State this fall, I will certainly buy the area guidebook, but I don't really want to have to buy a guidebook for each region/state I visit.

Please don't take any of my suggestions as confrontational. I really appreciate this site as-is. I just see ways that it could be improved to be a better resource for first-time visitors to a spring, travelers looking for hot-spring stops, or those seeking up-to-date information on a particular spring. But maybe that's not what this community wants--and if it's not I won't push the idea further.

Anir dendroica = "tree-dwelling man" (roughly). Anir is Greek for man. Dendroica is not a greek word per se but it is the genus of some of my favorite birds. It is derived the Greek dendron (tree) and oike (to dwell) and refers to their tree-dwelling habit.
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Eric
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Re: Suggestion: pages for each HS, not just each state

Post by Eric »

anir dendroica wrote:this restructuring would, over time, enable this site to become the one comprehensive source for US hot springs information.
That definitely was not my intention in starting this site up. We needed a way to continue the casual conversation that had been going on for a number of years at Soak.net but which was in severe danger of being killed off by spam and site breakdowns, and Soakers Forum was started up solely for that purpose.

I have never had any interest in trying to build and maintain a definitive structured hot springs database. In addition to the guidebooks there are some places you can find that sort of info online, such as Karin's Soakers Bible site. It looks like Idasoaker is trying to turn the Soak.net forum into that sort of a resource, although given the history of that site and the forum structure I'm not too sure how that will work out over time. We're always open to ideas but I'd rather see this site stay more informal. Soakers Forum can be the cafe or bar, other places can be the library.

Eric
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anir dendroica
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Post by anir dendroica »

Points well taken. The "library" information is available elsewhere. (Though it would perhaps be good to link to that information from this site where appropriate.)

One last attempt before I rest my case:

Nature, including hot springs, is ever-changing. Thus while the guidebooks and soakersbible can tell me that a spring floods seasonally, has variable temperature, or is difficult to access in the winter, they can't tell me whether a visit to, say, Granite Hot Springs on May 16 would be a good idea. "Library" sources are updated perhaps once a year at best. This site is updated weekly or more often for some springs. Thus I still feel that an always-on-top "news" thread for each spring would be extremely helpful. That way, if I visit a spring and don't feel like telling a story or starting a new thread, I can at least update the news thread with "visited XX spring on XX date, creek crossing was difficult but doable, temperature 103 degrees, had the spring to myself" or whatever my experience was.

~Mark
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Kim_S
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Post by Kim_S »

Hi Mark, your points are well taken. I think a lot of us try to create a separate subject for individual springs. Take a look at the Idaho forum and you'll see a lot of individual hot springs subjects. Jeff and I were major contributors to that particular forum and structure.

I think most of all like to see as much hot spring information as possible included in the posts. We all vary as to our preferences on how we process information. Some of us would prefer to see only pictures(visual), some want only writing (descriptive) and some want a combination of both. I like to see the facts, but I also really enjoy the personal stories that go along with the hot springs facts.

I like the Friends of Cougar news, but admittedly its difficult for most of us to do something similar because we are not necessarily regulars at many of the hot springs we visit. (Wayne would be the exception for Umpqua).

As mentioned by others, there are tons of great hot springs resources including books (for us "older generation" souls) as well as Internet info. I like Eric's analogy- soakers forum is more like a cafe than a library...anyway, just my 2 cents....
Kim Sturmer
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Eric
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Post by Eric »

The best way to get a specific question (such as "Is going to Granite Hot Springs on May 16 a good idea?") answered is to start a new topic with the nature of your question in the title. Even if a general topic like "Granite Hot Springs" exists, nobody should ever feel like they are cluttering up the forum by starting a new topic asking a question like that. Don't feel like you are obligated to ask your question by adding the 46th comment to the existing topic. Eventually your specific question will probably sink down the list and as users add on comments to the more general topic about Granite, the general topic will float to the top. And, to be honest, some of our discussions range so far off topic, it's sometimes a great idea to just start fresh with a new discussion about a particular hot spring.

Eric
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Bulldozer
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Post by Bulldozer »

What "Anir" is saying I think, sounds similar to the http://www.nwhotsprings.net homepage. Alot of people bookmarked the "Forum/Discussion page" and forgot about the homepage. With-in the homepage was brief discription on some hotsprings in Washington, B.C., Oregon, etc... without the chatter. If you wanted more "Up-to-date" information then you would and should go enlist the forums and other internet sites(4x4 sites, fishing sites, etc..)... But a general guide, homepage with general directions I like. Then the forum for landslide, road condition up dates.
Soak Well and Be Calmed.
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