Soakers Forum

Religious discussion is outside the scope of this forum, even in the free-for-all section. Since it looked like it wasn't going to stop, I have edited the topic to delete all the religious references. We now return to our discussion of Strawberry Park, already in progress...

Eric wrote:...I have edited the topic to delete all the religious references.

Amen, Brother!

Yes, freedom of speech (press, internet) has a quasi-religious attachment to many.
You can't please everyone, Eric.

I don't agree with your decision either, Eric. If the people on a forum wish to discuss something, we should be able to discuss it. Without our abilities to post what we want without censorship, we do not have a lively and vibrant forum.

I've said it before, and still believe it... overmoderation is the death of a good forum. While you personally might not like it, it's threads like these that could have created some interesting discussions. True, it had a good potential to spiral out of control. But the fact is that in order to have an excellent forum with some really vibrant dialog, you have to allow for the possibility that a thread will turn sour.

Not surprisingly, I agree with Soaky on this one. My perception of this forum is that we are a community that is free to discuss just about anything as long as it isn't offensive, libelous or hurtful. One of the problems with Soak.net was the insistence, by some, that only discussions about hot springs were appropriate.

I enjoy the banter, the social interaction and the little snapshots of people here as people and not just a dry recitation of facts or opinions about hot springs. To me it isn't about freedom of speech, it's about community. I think Eric's decision was much more of an affront to the community then an affront to freedom of speech.

Maybe it's simply a question of perception. I didn't see anything that was overtly offensive in any of the posts. Maybe I just have a wharped sense of what's offensive. For those of you who were tired of, or offended by, Soaky's ramblings, the good news for you is I don't think you'll see any more of her.

Good decision Eric. Those comments belong somewhere, but not here.

Upon further review ...
Maybe the best moderation in a case like this -- people willingly engaged in dialogue irrelevant to hotspringing -- is to move it to another forum. Free for all, basically.

If Soaky really 'leaves' over this, that's pretty sad. It wouldn't make Soaky look like she particularly cares about participation.

We all love ya', Soakahontas.

mikel g wrote:Upon further review ...
Maybe the best moderation in a case like this -- people willingly engaged in dialogue irrelevant to hotspringing -- is to move it to another forum. Free for all, basically.

That's pretty much what I'm thinking of doing. Rather than enforcing "no religion" and "no politics" rules by deleting or editing posts, I think I might create a new subforum, to be called "The Crab Cooker". No content restriction whatsoever, you can rant about Obama or abortion or gay marriage or Mormon polygamy to your heart's content, and anybody who wades in there accepts all risk for damage to their sensibilities. In this case, rather than hard-deleting posts which appeared in a thread in the Colorado forum, I could have split those posts off into a new topic in The Crab Cooker.

That's an excellent idea, Eric.

Soaky, we miss you!

It doesn't take much, sometimes, to upset someone's apple cart. People are like that, no matter how much we like to think otherwise. But life goes one, we all learn more every day, we modify our behavior for better or for worse and this, too, shall pass.

There will always be a need for moderation, but with a CRAB COOKER! subforum, you can cook your crabs any way you like em!

Just my 25¢ (minus 23¢).

--B...

I like the idea of The Crab Cooker for three reasons:

o Talk about alliteration! Captain Curmudgeon Clobbers The Crab Cooker.

o Curmudgeons are wont to rant about everything and here is the place.

o If I'm not in the mood for ranting or pointless and unending arguments, I can stay the hell out.

Oh, another one:

o I can get in on this stuff instead of finding out about it days or weeks later because it was off in some topic (like Colorado) that I don't always follow.

Naturally,
R.O.

P.S. Isn't the traditional triad sex, politics, and religion. Give sex a chance (and a place), Eric.

The Crab cooker could be for "sex topics".

The Hot Pot for "religion & politics".

More appropreate, just had the names reversed...

There is no better way to create division amongst people with a common interest (soaking) then to discuss religion/politics. Case in point, the thread the other day and people contemplating messageboard suicide over religion or politics.

IMO it's better to keep all the bickering in a sub forum rather than seeing a beautiful pic of a hot spring and then someone's rant about how right their particular views about religion or politics are. You know how the next post goes. You're wrong! I'm right! Blah blah blah de fuggen blah.......

Then people end up disrespecting one another and they leave the site.

As a participant in the little Colorado uprising I am not displeased with the deletion of the whole matter. I will not bring up religion or politics in the forum (maybe sex though) but like many I also will not let misrepresentations of the facts go unchallenged. People will believe as they wish but they do need to hear the whole story. I came to read about soaking and read something that I found inaccurate and degrading to millions of people, a few of which I know very well. A separate place for those discussions is a good idea. Then I can just not go there. I don’t open my trash can expecting to find good food and I wouldn’t open the topic labeled trash expecting to find hot springs discussions.

As for the freedom of speech issue, we all have the freedom to speak but we do not have the freedom to use another person’s platform for that speech. This forum is the platform of the website owners and they can and should control what goes on here. If they don’t permit you to speak your message here get your own platform. Freedom of speech also does not mean anyone is required to listen.

WWaterDude wrote:Not surprisingly, I agree with Soaky on this one. ... For those of you who were tired of, or offended by, Soaky's ramblings, the good news for you is I don't think you'll see any more of her.

I've long doubted the existence of any woman posting as Soakahontas. Was she the alter-ego of someone else? Who else has left a soak.forum in a huff?

I haven't left in a huff and Soaky has been banned. It is of no consequence to me what you think. There are reasons for what Soaky did and reasons why I posted that she wouldn't be back. It had nothing to do with a silly discussion about religion and in fact was a very serious matter that has been resolved. Those people on this Forum who Soaky considered "friends" have been informed as to what took place. If it somehow makes you feel better, or safer, or smarter or whatever it is you lack, you can believe in your heart that Soaky and I are one person.

mtn gal wrote: If they don’t permit you to speak your message here get your own platform.

That inlies the potential problem. If we posters are overmoderated and not allowed to post what we wish, then we will find another venue. True, you can form another venue for the topic, but that doesn't really work. For example, I didn't notice this thread until well after it had been moved. I my mind, the topic was dead and no one was discussing it. All that I knew was that the thread was locked and a handful of my posts were deleted without my knowledge.

The interweb's a big place, and we posters can be fickle creatures. Therefore, being the judiciary on an open forum is touchier then most people think.

(Edited for some clarity.)

The subforum is a good idea. Every decent forum I've ever contributed to has a rant n rave type of deal where you say whatever you like and enter at your own risk. No moderators allowed. Or maybe no moderators allowed to intercede-aahh on the screeching-aahh. And anything in the usual forum that sounds like it's approaching the limits of decorum or subject matter simply gets moved to the ranty place. I would think that the peeps on this forum wouldn't get too ridiculous with one another - belief systems are BELIEF systems after all and inherently non-arguable. Of course, there are those who don't share that particular belief. So there you go.

I'll sure miss Soaky.

Dawndelion

Since I was gone on a long bicycle ride, I guess I missed something here. Could anyone in the know PM me and fill me in on what happened?

I have never met a lawyer that couldn't/wouldn't defend themselves.

I miss the soaky character myself whoever that may be.

I know why Soaky chose to leave (again), but why was she banned?

Reply by PM if you're not comfortable explaining in public. Thanks!

Wayne Estes
Oakland, Oregon

Wayne, I'll (I've?) PM'd ya!

--B...