Hot Springs and the Young

Hot Springs and the Young

Postby bangedupshins » Sat Jan 05, 2008 7:17 pm

A good question originally asked in Soak.net

Taking my baby to hot springs
« on: Feb 12th, 2004, 11:44am by dovel in Soak.net »
Hi friends of the earth! This is a question, not really bout etiquette but about taking my new baby to the springs with us. I just had my first baby girl 12/7/2003 , my husband and I love to go to the hot springs. We usually go in March but I think now that I have Sarah we might have to wait till summer or spring. What I want to know is have any of you have babies at the hot springs? How early can they go? I know I cant take her in the dead of winter but if she is 5 or 6 months old can i go in June? Anyone have experience with this?? Im a new mom and I dont want to give up the pleasure of soaking![/url]


Bad idea, for several reasons:

    1. Unlike healthy teens and adults, infants and the young are still developing their thermoregulation mechanisms (primarily the hypothalmus) and have unreliable and spotty control of their core body temperature . . . generally until around the age of six. They can easily overheat (or conversely get too cold) without the normal mechanisms we as adults use to control our core body temperature (such as sweating). The younger the child is, the more likely hyperthermia can result without any warning signs.

    2. Infants and younger children, even if they are somewhat aware that they are getting hot often do not show thirst as a result of developing dehydration or sweating as cues their parents can use.

    3. Infants lack bowel control. Without waterproof, sealed pampers, you risk contaminating the pool waters with the ever-present bacterium in fecal matter.

    4. The young also have undeveloped immune systems. Natural hot spring waters are not chlorinated or disinfected. You risk serious illnesses in your young (such as meningitis) from accidental ingestion of the springs waters.


Practically all commercial hot springs and many controlled natural hot springs restrict hot spring usage to those over the age of six. Please leave underaged children at home.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby trevor_n_jane » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:00 am

"Bad idea" is a very easy answer, and very exclusive of liability.... having said that, yes everything stated in the prior post is text book correct and if you take your children to hot springs you are exposing them to a risk.

As a person who believes that being born is inherently risky and that statistics provide that your child is more likely to die in a car accident, I provide the following tips should anyone judge the risk of introducing your children to the science, scenery, and culture of hot springs, as worth it:
1) Make sure your child has a full understanding of bowel functions (no accidents in the pools), some kids I've seen are good at 1 year (if you want more info, or doubt me, google diaperless baby), others later. The average child potty trains (while awake) by approximately three years and has a good understanding of appropriate places to defecate by 18 - 24 months.
2) Keep fluids handy and insist they drink regularly.
3) Limit their time in the pools (depending on the temperature) to 5-10 minute stretches. If you don't pack a thermometer (it’s a good idea but I keep forgetting) test the water the same way you would a bath (inside of forearm), closest to the source, give the water a good swish with the other arm before testing to get a more consistent feel. My kids like to hang out on the edge and dangle their feet in most of the time and will not stand to soak in "hot" water.
4) Do not let them drink the water.
5) Do not let them submerge their head.
6) Monitor them, watch their complexion. If they get flushed, it’s time for a break.
7) Avoid hot/warm soaking in hot weather.
8) Take advantage of the opportunity to teach hot spring etiquette at an early age. Learning to respecting other people’s quiet enjoyment of the area is very important. Encouraging quiet observations while others are around and limiting jumping, splashing, and other boisterous active play to times when only the family is at the springs is always a good idea. This goes along ways with fellow patrons, and kids can be quite profound when their opinion on the scenery, hike, wildlife, etc is asked. A favourite quiet activity is collecting rocks from the bottom of sand pools and filling cracks or raising the walls with them, which also encourages good stewardship.
9) Explain that many people go nude at hot springs and your relative views on this subject (I like the everybody is naked under their clothes, so who cares if we don't wear them) and allow them to express their views (my son is mostly insistent on wearing swim shorts, my daughter embraces nudity).

Many hot springs are located in areas that have certain risks. These can include steep cliffs, rushing waters, dangerous wildlife, etc. Keeping a close eye on your children and how they are adjusting is essential. There are no lifeguards, no guard rails or anti slip paths, you are your child’s best defence from injury. It’s imperative that you are able to communicate risks to your child and that they understand/abide by them.

For myself, I avoided hot springs for the first 18-24 months because I found it tricky to explain and have my child comply with not drinking the water, which can be unhealthy for a variety of reasons (bacterial, mineral, etc). A good indicator is when they stop drinking bath water and don't have accidents when naked, you may want to consider the risks of going to the hot springs with your children. I did actually take my first born at 6 months to Banf Hot Springs (they didn't have any age restriction) but he wore a swim diaper and the water is chlorinated and the temperature strictly controlled (pretty much your standard swimming pool).

Disclaimer of Liability: The use of hot springs is a dangerous activity, people who suffer from all sorts of ailments, or are under the age of 18 without parental supervision, or under the age of 10, altogether, should not partake. <-Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

As to "Please leave underage children at home", hmm yes with their other parents I suppose? Or is that like "Please leave all photographic equipment at home" and we should just put them in the sock drawer for safe keeping? I'm always perplexed with comments like this, it makes children seems like accessories to be worn and stored as needed. One woman in a very quiet restaurant once stopped my mother from apologising for me bringing my children into it by saying, "We were all children once. We aren't born adults." It’s become my children's favourite restaurant and they've learned the importance of enjoying the atmosphere.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby mikel g » Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:32 am

Wow, this is a great post, Trevor n Jane. And it's thrilling to see that a couple of young parents are taking their young children to the greatest places in the universe. Why should they have to grow up watching bad kid movies? Modern (urban) America is creating a generation of people out of touch with the real (natural) world.

I took all my kids backpacking, camping, and hotspringing at least as early as age 3; some were younger, but with more it becomes problematic. No memory of discussing the pros and cons of nudity; once we were accompanied by friends, and we all started out in suits and were all naked within 10 minutes. Virtually without a comment.

You probably already suspect that (if you've ever encountered any) the most obnoxious, boorish, and disrespectful people you've met probably did not have parents who took them out into the woods when they were very young. It's almost black and white. Aversion to bugs, dirt, plants, animals, weather, etc, are all learned much later; usually because parents introduce and reinforce these aversions. Love of Earth and it's many life forms is imminent, when you're young enough.

Congratulations on being on, and keeping on, the right path.
.
If life were supposed to be tough, why would there be hot springs?
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Floater » Tue Aug 04, 2009 8:00 am

At the risk of offending some people I would like to add this. If you choose to bring children of any age to a hot spring, be responsible. Don't let them run around wild, don't let them bother other people, don't let them destroy environmentally sensitive flora. I have had many calm relaxing soaks with young children present because their parents "behaved" by keeping an eye on them and teaching them how to interact with others in a quiet, calming, relaxing setting. Conversely, I have had a number of nice relaxing soaks ruined by children who were not supervised and whose parents simply brought them to the spring and abdicated all responsibility for supervising them. (by the way it is the same for dogs)

There are medical reasons having to do with immersion and drinking water and bowel movements in the spring that are very real and should be addressed. Those are between the parent and the child. There are also issues of allowing your children to ruin the soaking experience for others just so you can soak. I don't tolerate kids throwing tantrums in stores, crying incessantly during movies or acting out in public in an anti-social way. This is not a zero tolerance issue. I expect kids to be kids and I cut them a lot of slack. I don't expect parents to be selfish and allow their children to ruin a quiet, relaxing soaking experience because they don't know how to parent. It's about the behavior of the kid and the behavior of the parents. I took my kids hiking, camping, soaking and all kinds of other wilderness places when they were very young. I never allowed them to act out in a way that "ramificated" on others. From that they learned respect of others. At my age, if your kid or your dog or your drunk friend act in a way that is ruining my enjoyment of the soaking experience, I'm going to tell you and ask you to remedy the situation.

It is like so many things in life. Be respectful and courteous of others and don't assume that just because you want to do something, it's ok to do.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby mikel g » Tue Aug 04, 2009 9:21 am

Floater, good to see 'your drunk friend' tossed in as somewhat equivalent to 'your dog' and 'your child'. Of course, your dog or your drunk companion are unlikely to learn valuable life lessons and make the world a better place, based on their great outdoor experience. And you are less likely to learn anything great from them, as you might from an intelligent child.

You would have to be open-minded toward children to gain anything from an interaction with one. If you think they're all just accidents waiting to happen, infringements upon your enjoyment of the outdoors, or at best a non-issue, then you are simply prejudiced. Suppose for a moment that adults are those whose movements are considered for restriction:

If you choose to bring your aged (over 40) parents to a hot spring, be responsible. Don't let them talk incessantly, don't let them make suggestive comments, don't let them modify their natural surroundings. I have had many calm relaxing soaks with older people present because their caretakers "behaved" by keeping an eye on them and reminding them how to interact with others in a quiet, calming, relaxing setting. Conversely, I have had a number of nice relaxing soaks ruined by grownups who were not well-mannered
...
There are medical reasons having to do with immersion and incontinence and sexually transmitted diseases in the spring that are very real and should be addressed. Those are between the parent and the child. There are also issues of allowing your parents to ruin the soaking experience for others just so you can soak. I don't tolerate middle-aged bigots spreading their prejudices in stores, griping incessantly during movies or acting out in public in a xenophobic way. This is not a zero tolerance issue. I expect old farts to be old farts and I cut them a lot of slack. I don't expect their caregivers to be selfish and allow their companions to ruin a quiet, relaxing soaking experience because they don't know how to caregive. It's about the behavior of the geezer and the behavior of the young and fit. I went with my parents hiking, camping, soaking and all kinds of other wilderness places while they were getting older. I never allowed them to act out in a way that "ramificated" on others. From that they accepted my rules of respect for others. At my age, if your dad or your dog or your drunk friend act in a way that is ruining my enjoyment of the soaking experience, I'm going to tell you and ask you to remedy the situation.


Hey, it's all good.
.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby BNMac » Tue Aug 04, 2009 10:48 am

mikel g wrote:
If you choose to bring your aged (over 40) parents to a hot spring, be responsible. Don't let them talk incessantly, don't let them make suggestive comments, don't let them modify their natural surroundings. I have had many calm relaxing soaks with older people present because their caretakers "behaved" by keeping an eye on them and reminding them how to interact with others in a quiet, calming, relaxing setting. Conversely, I have had a number of nice relaxing soaks ruined by grownups who were not well-mannered


Hey, it's all good.


Hey, I resemble that remark!

--Bruce, 52!...
There must be someplace in the middle of the fringe where I fit in... Woody Russell, Salt
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Jeff Allen » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:21 pm

51 and still a child!!!
...Soaking again in 2010, is it Soak:30 Yet???
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Floater » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:40 pm

mikel,

I wonder why you find it necessary to reply in a sarcastic and illogical way on many occasions when Soaky or I say something. She warned me about you when I first joined this board. You seem to be more interested in invalidating other people's opinions then you do in an open and intelligent exchange of ideas. You did the same thing to her years ago, under a different name, on Soak.net and now you have decided to turn your unintelligent dribble on me.

What is your problem. Are you so petty and argumentative and in need of stifling any opinion that doesn't mirror your myopic view of the world. Your attempt to denigrate me and my opinion only shows your ignorance. Your twisting of my suggestions only shows that you have no desire to exchange ideas in a healthy, productive way and only wish to bully people who don't agree with you. You don't intimidate me in the least. You and you alone seem to introduce this mean spirited, negative approach to a discussion which no one appreciates. If you're trying to show that you're clever or intelligent, it isn't working. You were a pain in the butt on Soak.net and you apparently feel the need to bring that unwanted attitude here. It's old and tired and counter productive.

So let me make a suggestion. Don't read my posts or Soaky's posts. Just ignore them. Neither of us write for you, we write for the people who are amenable to an open, healthy, productive exchange of information and opinions. Contrary to your misguided perception you are neither right or in a position of moral authority on most issues you address. Why you feel afraid of us or intimidated by us or threatened by us is beyond me. We discussed this over lunch and Soaky suggested I just let it go. But I'm tired of your ego-centric, holier then though, sanctimonious ravings which only occasionally have any relevance or merit. You have nothing to say to me, ever. Try to remember that.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby BNMac » Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:01 pm

:oops: (as the site owner slowly and quietly slips out of the room while wishing he'd never suggested that he resemble remarks of old age converse/inverse to the topic at hand) :oops:

Soakers, let's return to the original topic, please. (my own experiences with introducing hotspringing to our children to follow)

--Bruce...
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Jeff Allen » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:07 am

As a parent of 2 children that we took camping before the age of 1 and soaking after potty training I know that my 2 still love to go camping & soaking. Before they head back for a week or so to where they grew up (and I didn't) they always confirm hot springs and camping areas. That always makes my heart soar as they still remember the good times we had as a young soaking/camping/hiking family out west.

Those were the good times for us and always will be. I hope they will be for everyone else who loves the same things we still do..

To return when I can, I always will...
...Soaking again in 2010, is it Soak:30 Yet???
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby -BoatSoaker77- » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:46 pm

I rarely ever see trash laying around Strawberry park hot springs but some ahole left a dirty diaper on the steps the other day.

Infants in a hot springs is a BAD idea.
compassion, moderation, humility, soak......
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Jeff Allen » Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:49 am

Too bad you didn't see him leave the diaper as it could have been a hood ordament for his car!

Or placed under one of his hub caps to bake in the hot western sun. It would take him days to find it!!

One must be creative when dealing with hot springs trashers...
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby First Penguin » Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:58 pm

Most of the kids I saw at strawberry were okay. I was amazed at the number of band-aids, but then again after dark is quite difficult to see the rock steps. Even during the day my 15 y.o. managed to gouge a toe on each foot. :roll:
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby mikel g » Fri Aug 07, 2009 3:41 pm

All of my favorite people are (or were) children. After about age 19, people tend to get weirder.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby hempies » Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:52 pm

My 18 month old has not had an issue yet. And all the people we meet along the way are happy to see we are "indoctrinating" another soaker at such a young age. He cruises around the pools picking up the trash the "adults" leave behind...


We put him in a swim diaper, full body suit rash guard (no suntan lotion), and a hat. He stays in the lower temp pools and plays like it's a bathtub.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby trevor_n_jane » Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:27 am

One of the coolest things we did recently was rescue a damselfly from one of the tubs. The kids go to watch as she beet her wings to dry them while sitting on my hand and then take off into the forest chased by a heard of dragonflies.

I still don't know if we did her a favor, drowning in a hot spring vs mobbed by men, tough call.
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Kim_S » Thu Oct 29, 2009 11:28 am

...I'll settle for a swarm of ladybugs... :D
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Re: Hot Springs and the Young

Postby Jeff Allen » Thu Oct 29, 2009 1:58 pm

Sounds like she was a "Damsel in Distress"...
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